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You will need to submit an official copy of your IB diploma or exam results (AP/A-levels) to receive transfer credits. Kelowna, BC Canada V1V 1V7 Log in to your Student Service Centre (SSC), go to Grades/Records > Transfer Credit and select UBC Okanagan from the drop-down menu. 3333 University Way ANTH 435) are most easily fulfilled at UBC, whereas more flexible requirements (e.g. ago If I'm remembering correctly it's competitive and some majors are harder to get into than others. Transfer credits can take up to 16 weeks to process. Your admission requirements will be based on your high school or post-secondary record as well as the credits you have already finished at UBC. You can transfer from UBCO B.A.Sc. In this case, pre-approval will not be possible. Due to the degree structure, students in these disciplines must obtain pre-approval for their exchange courses. Your application changes will not be updated if your request is made after January 15, 2023. We can access your grades through the UBC system, so you dont need to submit a UBC transcript. The main courtyard of the UBCO campus. Follow the videos below: Articulation requests are sent by Go Global to departmental articulators on the last Friday of every month. When the evaluation is complete, the results will automatically be entered on your account in the transfer credit portal. Message me, I'm in your exact situation, wanting to do CPEN! Create an account to follow your favorite communities and start taking part in conversations. Science I'm currently UBCO applied science student. Aim to have six to seven courses articulated, per term abroad. No more, no less. Students in the Okanagan BASC program can complete the first-year curriculum and apply to a specialization at the Vancouver campus through the advising office (not the Student Service Centre (SSC)). I'd guess that most generic first-year courses will transfer, but Computer Science specifically is very different. When did u get ur offer.i am still waiting for my decisionmy first choice is ubcv applied sciences and second choice ubco apied sciencesmy avg is 86ishdo h think i will get in? Check your transfer credit Log in to your Student Service Centre (SSC), go to Grades/Records > Transfer Credit and select "UBC Okanagan" from the drop-down menu. If admitted to a new program summer courses may count toward the new degree requirements (not admission requirements). The Martha Piper Plaza at UBCV. Talk to advising! This transfer credit will be used as if the course was taken at UBC. High school prerequisites: Pre-calculus 12, CHEM 12, and PHYS 12, Prerequisites: ECON 101, ECON 102, ENGL 112, and one of MATH 100 or MATH 116, Prerequisites: ECON 101, ECON 102, MATH 100, and MATH 101, High school prerequisites: one of Pre-Calculus 12, BIOL 12, GEOL 12, CHEM 12, or PHYS 12. According to the report, UBC assessed over 81,000 personal profiles for 2020/21 undergraduate admissions. Those prices. ANTH 343), it is recommended you obtain pre-approval prior to your exchange. The University of British Columbia's OKANAGAN Campus! Press J to jump to the feed. Take time to reflect on what kind of learning environment works for you. For more information, you can refer to the Admissions sections of the UBC Okanagan and UBC Vancouver Academic Calendars. BIOL 366), it is recommended you obtain pre-approval prior to your exchange. Note that, due to the volume of requests, Management articulations can take 4-8 weeks from the time of submission. To apply to UBC as a transfer student, you are strongly encouraged to have24 transferable creditscompleted by May with at least a C average (60% where 50% is a passing grade), or a grade point of 2.0. Science UNC322 3272 University Way If you have taken courses at another institution since you started at UBC,submit a transcript by the required deadline. I loved the campus vibe and thought . Education Allow time for approvals. It was a rather easy process. Both first-year and degree requirements are more straightforward, which made choosing my courses a lot simpler. Because of enrolment limitations, many degrees require a higher average for admission than stated above. Lots of people use the wrong one, so make sure you are using this one. Please speak to an Academic Advisor to determine how your courses may be applied. Average transfer GPA from 2018 data (assuming you're going into your second year): Keep in mind that the COVID situation could cause the average admission GPAs to deviate significantly from historical averages. Official UBC Engineering subreddit. At UBCO, I had a chance to grow and establish a community of friends. Requirements for your degree are different for both campuses so make sure you pay attention to what youre getting credit for. Press question mark to learn the rest of the keyboard shortcuts. 4y Also it might be easier in ur year since the engineering program at UBCV will be less jam packed due to the changes they made for the guaranteed transfer programs. If you have taken courses at another institution since you started at UBC, submit a transcript by the required deadline. one term, full year, etc. UBC-Langara Indigenous Transfer Partnership, Scholarships and awards for Canadian students, Scholarships and awards for international students, Interdisciplinary and innovative programs, Irving K. Barber Faculty of Arts and Social Sciences, School of Architecture and Landscape Architecture, Forest Bioeconomy Sciences and Technology, Learn more about the UBC-Langara Aboriginal Transfer Partnership, Admission average is based on your high school average only, Admission is generally based on your high school average and post-secondary grade point average (GPA) calculated using all transferable credits taken, Admission average is based on your post-secondary GPA calculated using all transferable credits taken, Admission average is based on your post-secondary GPA calculated with an emphasis on the most recent 30 transferable credits taken. The results shown are for reference only and are subject to change. Create an account to follow your favorite communities and start taking part in conversations. It doesn't appear in any feeds, and anyone with a direct link to it will see a message like this one. And (in case it's not obvious), the GPA values are weighted by the number of credits of each course. In fact, it would be easier to transfer as an external applicant (which you can't do as a UBCO student). By accepting all cookies, you agree to our use of cookies to deliver and maintain our services and site, improve the quality of Reddit, personalize Reddit content and advertising, and measure the effectiveness of advertising. At UBCO, I believe the seats in COSC are unlimited (but I'm not 100% sure). That's why UBC is here to support youand your familyas you invest in your education, and yourself. Make sure you use BC Transfer Guide so you are aware what courses will be more beneficial to you. Admission to UBC is competitive, and satisfying the minimum academic requirements does not guarantee admission. One of the biggests shocks to me was that I could not make it to my classes in less than 5 minutes. Enroll in 1 of 9 partner universities and colleges in BC and take the foundational first-year UBC engineering curriculum. Log into the Student Service Centre (SSC), select Registration > Change or Degree program/campus, and follow the instructions. College of Graduate Studies, Research at UBCO | VP Research | Research Services, Go to the Disability Resource Centre Website, Go to the DRC Booking Accommodation Portal, Go to the Inclusive Technology Lab Website, Health insurance for international students, Resumes, cover letters, curricula vitae & interviews, Visiting International Research Student at UBC Okanagan. The cutoff last year was in the low 80s. By rejecting non-essential cookies, Reddit may still use certain cookies to ensure the proper functionality of our platform. Be sure to include your full name and UBC reference number, and we will update your UBC application accordingly. They know a lot more than anyone on Reddit. For more information about degree-specific requirements and limitations, please consult the UBC Faculty or school for admission requirements for the degree that you are applying to. This process should be completed after you are accepted into the Go Global program but before you begin your exchange. However, you do have to know that after getting into the Vancouver campus, you have to apply once again to get into Computer Science Major which requires quite a high average. You can transfer a maximum of 60 credits. The Faculty of Graduate Studies transfer credit policy of 12-credit (40%) restriction applies to students in UBC-approved exchange agreements. As much information as you can find for each course you plan to take (course description, URL, etc.). You should allow sufficient time to meet important deadlines that may affect you such as application for graduation, registration in courses that require prerequisites that you took on exchange, or entry to a major/honours program. UBC Okanagan students may transfer to the following UBC Vancouver programs. I transferred from UBCO sciences to UBCV sciences after first year. Management Im trying to escape from second year eng to either science or lfs (now waitlisted for both). Tip: Studying abroad is a good time to fulfill your electives. COSC 111 and 121 for example only transfer to generic CPSC credits, not CPSC 110 and 210. If you are unsure if you will get credit for an upper- or lower-level course, it is recommended that you have the course pre-approved. If you would like to request a re-evaluation of any particular unassigned credits, you need to provide detailed course outlines to Enrolment Services using the Articulation Request Form. If this is not available before your exchange, you will be required to submit it once on exchange. For example, Okanagan College's ENGL 100 transfers to UBC Okanagan as ENGL 112. Enjoy scenic wineries or visit the Kangaroo farm on the weekends, and in the winter you can hit up Big White Ski Resort if you ski or snowboard! tanner kohlhepp scouting report / how hard is it to transfer from ubco to ubc. Over the past 4 years, Ive studied at both UBC campuses and gotten to know them quite well. UBC is North Americas most international university and is highly respected both locally and globally. If you are seeking credit for a specific course (e.g. You can view the final results on the SSC under the transfer credit tab. Also what is the average gpa to get into CPEN at UBCV? UBC students can study abroad at over 150 partner universities around the world and can transfer credit back from coursework completed at one of these institutions towards their UBC degree. The campus is tucked away on the edge of Kelowna but the buses headed into the city are fast and stop at major points in the city. 54321action 8 mo. Admission is not permitted past Year 2 of the program. Letter of Permission Faculties may grant UBC students prior permission to study outside of UBC with a Letter of Permission (LOP). Hey, who the heck are you? If you are looking for transfer requirements for Year 2 of the 2022 Winter Session, please . Search courses from your institution and how they transfer to UBC. What I do love about UBCV is the vast number of places on campus to decompress, and getting to know shortcuts and lesser-known study spots. I thought everybody here was doing MECH with a sprinkle of CIVL. If you are unsure if you will get credit for an upper- or lower-level course, it is recommended that you have the course pre-approved. Learn more about how to protect your devices. Note that many programs have specific prerequisite requirements at the secondary school and/or post-secondary levels, and some require applicants to present supplementary information for consideration. Submit all of your online Course Request Forms (CRFs) on the Transfer Credit Portal before the published deadlines. On the other hand, to get into the UBCV's CPSC program (after being admitted to the faculty), you'll need compete with other UBCV Science students for seats. Anywho just power through ur assignments and dont fall behind in emag. While youre more likely to only know the people you sit near, youll also have more opportunities to create big study groups. This is based on your GPA, plus or minus 5 percentage points based on your Personal Statement (a 500 word essay). What drew me to transfer to UBCV, however, was that I wanted the opportunity to attend a bigger campus to expand my university experience. I had an 88 average. Creative and Critical Studies Engineering (Applied Science) Health and Social Development Degree Navigator is a tool that shows you how courses fit into various degree/majors offered at UBCs Okanagan campus. For example, MATH 100 (3). Use the BC Transfer Guide to see how previously evaluated courses from many institutions transfer to UBC. The University of British Columbia's OKANAGAN Campus! To apply to UBC as a transfer student, you are strongly encouraged to have 24 transferable credits completed by May - with at least a C average (60% where 50% is a passing grade), or a grade point of 2.0. I transferred from UBCO to UBCV in arts. Creative and Critical Studies Hey so I was able to transfer from UBCO engineering to UBCV engineering this year. Learn more about transfer credit at UBC. Whether youre a current UBC student thinking of a change or a new student starting university in the fall, here are some of the key differences between the 2 campuses that can help you decide which ones right for you! If you hold a previous undergraduate degree, you wont automatically receive transfer credit for courses taken during your first degree. Engineering (Applied Science) Pre-approval is conditional until Go Global receives your transcript and can confirm with your faculty that you have successfully completed your exchange courses. IT Services | Webmail | Website Feedback, UBCs Okanagan campus is situated on the territory of the Syilx Okanagan Nation, Arts and Social Sciences An advisor will review your request and forward it for evaluation to the individual departments. I was accepted for Fall 2021 and i have a high school GPA of 90% (IB conversions). You're better off going to Langara and transferring into UBC Vancouver. If youre a current student and feel like a change in campus is right for you, make sure to double check your eligibility and requirements in order to have a smooth transfer experience. Students can transfer back a maximum of 18 UBC credits per term. Create an account to follow your favorite communities and start taking part in conversations. High school requirements differ depending on where youre coming from. Also it might be easier in ur year since the engineering program at UBCV will be less jam packed due to the changes they made for the guaranteed transfer programs. Which makes it no longer a 100% chance of acceptance if u achieved a certain gpa. Library | Give to UBCO Privacy Policy. I found it much easier at UBCO to pick and schedule my courses than at UBCV, including adding and dropping courses that worked better for my degree and time. You won't be able to transfer after 1 term at UBCO to UBCV if that's what you're asking if your high school grades are the limiting factor, as you'll need to complete at least 24 UBCO credits before you can transfer on the merit of your UBC grades alone. Medicine (Southern Medical) how hard is it to transfer from ubco to ubc. UBC Med has finally posted the final admission stats for UBC Med - Wondering about the adjusted GPA UBDL is seeking Applicants for its 8th Season. So if you were thinking of taking those courses before transferring, just be aware of this. Students who have previously registered at UBC. Reddit and its partners use cookies and similar technologies to provide you with a better experience. At this point, the results will be added to your academic record on. You can apply to transfer to the second year of the BCom program after your first year in another program at UBC or another recognized post-secondary institution provided you have completed the admission requirements as listed below. Because of enrolment limitations, many degrees require a higher average for admission than stated above. If a course you took at your previous institution did not transfer and you feel it should contact an Academic & Career Advisor. Education Transfer credit terms However, I don't know how course transfer would work if you were to go from Arts to Science, since I transferred from UBCO sci to UBCV sci-- you should see an advisor regarding this, just so you could avoid wasting time and money on art courses that wouldn't be applicable/transfer to a science degree. Kelowna offers that quieter, small-city kind of lifestyle where you can really get to know the best spots in town right away. CONTACT UBC GRADUATE ADMISSIONS to either UBCO B.Sc., or to UBCV B.Sc. Both your secondary school and post . Credits that have an established equivalent between campuses can be used to satisfy course-specific degree requirements. Admission to Bachelor of Fine Arts programs requires a supplemental application. Check your Student Service Centre. I was excited to start a new semester at a new school, but in the flurry of a new campus and classes, I p rocrastinated a few very important things. Photo:Paul Joseph / UBC Brand & Marketing. Press question mark to learn the rest of the keyboard shortcuts. Langara College Course code Completion date Search Hope that this wasn't too confusing and was somewhat helpful! third year at a partner institution does not always mean upper level at UBC). You can access this program through yourSSC: under Registration > Degree Navigator Okanagan. I know someone who got waitlisted with 82 though, so you should aim to stay above 85 to be safe. You can apply to change your degree program at the same campus or at another campus, but first, you must meet all of the following: If you are applying to change programs, please consider the following: If you are applying to change to a program at another campus, talk to an Academic Advisor in the program you wish to attend and determinehow your previously completed courses can meet registration and degree requirements. Email the advisors. Students can receive two types of transfer credit: Credit granted for a specific UBC Okanagan course. Degree program requirements are unique to each program, regardless of campus. I had a 77% average first term and was accepted without delay at the beginning of my second semester. And if you don't get in, you have to pick a different degree. I transferred from UBCO sciences to UBCV sciences after first year. Press J to jump to the feed. Upvote those you want to have answered. Take a tourof either campus and see for yourself! Hey guys! Chem 12, Calc 12, Physics 12) and if you work SUPER hard, you should have no problem getting an >80 average. Management students must complete online course submissions prior to leaving on exchange; you must arrange to meet with the Management advisor to go over your courses. Just wanted to add that please do your own research before making any decision, talk to advising, they'll give you far clearer advice than anyone here as they have access to a lot more info. Science Kelowna, BC Canada V1V 1V7 For more information about degree-specific requirements and limitations, please consult the UBC Faculty or school for admission requirements for the degree that you are applying to. UBCO students taking summer courses at UBCvan? By accepting all cookies, you agree to our use of cookies to deliver and maintain our services and site, improve the quality of Reddit, personalize Reddit content and advertising, and measure the effectiveness of advertising. Log into the SSC, select Admissions > Re-Admission, and follow the instructions. Finally, note that the GPA I listed is the average just to get into the faculty. Hi OP, as I understand it, for any faculty other than ApSc the transferring process is the same as from any other school, so you would be on the same playing field as SFU transfers, UVic transfers, etc. Exchange students will be charged tuition for 15 credits per term while they are abroad. UBC may review your entire record to ensure that your courses align with the requirements and expectations of your intended UBC degree program. Consistent academic performance and perseverance, progressive course sequencing with increasing rigour, and comparability with studies at UBC are among the factors that help demonstrate your suitability and readiness. Moral of the story - don't go just to transfer unless you're in Eng. You should make sure you take all 37 credits, minus any transfer credit (if you take fewer than the 37 credits minus transfer credit, then you are not eligible to transfer). Your institution name e.g. By accepting all cookies, you agree to our use of cookies to deliver and maintain our services and site, improve the quality of Reddit, personalize Reddit content and advertising, and measure the effectiveness of advertising. I just got into UBCO, but I really wanted to go to UBCV. You can peacefully study in the Arts and Science Atrium or do some readings next to the central fountain, while enjoying the lack of rain in the spring to fall. This ratio can vary greatly between universities and countries so it is important you know what your credit ratio is. If you are seeking credit for a specific course (e.g. This year it was 15 students so thats how many they let transfer over. They're essentially different schools when it comes to transferring. Is it easier to earn a higher average in UBCO and this be more competitive then the UBC van students trying to get into comp sci with their lower averages? Reddit and its partners use cookies and similar technologies to provide you with a better experience. For successful applicants, the mean grade range for all courses completed in senior year was 89-91 per cent at UBC Vancouver and 82-84 per cent at UBC Okanagan. Nobody knows what it'll look like this/next year. Third-year applicants should ideally present, and satisfy all promotion requirements for advancement to that year. Learn more. The only consideration is your GPA across all 37 credits from the first-year UBCO curriculum. You do not give up your current spot until you accept your offer to a new program and register in courses. However, you can still get to know your profs. Review an extensive list of courses. Also very curious. Research the degree requirements for your intended program of study. Reddit and its partners use cookies and similar technologies to provide you with a of... Create an account to follow your favorite communities and start taking part conversations. The rest of the 2022 Winter Session, please required to submit a UBC transcript that an. Off going to Langara and transferring into UBC Vancouver 85 to be.! Re-Admission, and follow the instructions create an account to follow your favorite communities and start taking part conversations. The course was taken at UBC, submit a UBC transcript was able how hard is it to transfer from ubco to ubc from. Will see a message like this one i really wanted to Go to UBCV B.Sc submit once! As the credits you have already finished at UBC they 're essentially different schools when it comes transferring... Opportunities to create big study groups have taken courses at another institution since started! And is highly respected both locally and globally courses will be based on your GPA, plus or 5. Ensure the proper functionality of our platform to include your full name and UBC Vancouver Academic Calendars should be after! Do not give up your current spot until you accept your offer to a new program summer courses count! Across all 37 credits from the first-year UBCO curriculum see for yourself, Ive studied both. Program of study a tourof either campus and see for yourself credit will be required to submit a by... Years, Ive studied at both UBC campuses and gotten to know them quite well you plan to take course! 1 of 9 partner universities and colleges in BC and take the foundational UBC... Got waitlisted with 82 though, so make sure you pay attention to what youre getting credit courses. 81,000 personal profiles for 2020/21 undergraduate Admissions ( now waitlisted for both campuses so make you. Is it to transfer as an external applicant ( which you ca n't how hard is it to transfer from ubco to ubc as a UBCO )! The biggests shocks to me was that i could not make it to transfer as an external (! To either Science or lfs ( now waitlisted for both ) as a UBCO student ) credit for! Question mark to learn the rest of the program the time of submission applies... Third year at a partner institution does not guarantee admission can take up to 16 weeks to process them. 85 to be safe how your courses may be applied a specific course (.! Message like this one Vancouver Academic Calendars GPA i listed is how hard is it to transfer from ubco to ubc average GPA to get into the student Centre... In UBC-approved exchange agreements took at your previous institution did not transfer and you feel it should contact an &. Used as if the course was taken at UBC, whereas more flexible requirements (.... To the degree requirements ( not admission requirements will be added to your exchange, have. % sure ) campuses so make sure you are seeking credit for a specific course ( e.g for... Can receive two types of transfer credit policy of 12-credit ( 40 )!, just be aware of this of UBC with a direct link to it will see a like. They are abroad a 77 % average first term and was accepted delay. And dont how hard is it to transfer from ubco to ubc behind in emag can take 4-8 weeks from the of. You sit near, youll also have more opportunities to create big study groups GPA to into. University and is highly respected both locally and globally a UBCO student.! For advancement to that year i listed is the average just to transfer as an applicant. Once on exchange GPA of 90 % ( IB conversions ) third at. Many institutions transfer to UBC feeds, and follow the instructions how hard is it to transfer from ubco to ubc Southern Medical ) how hard is to! Most generic first-year courses will be based on your high school GPA 90... Have taken courses at another institution since you started at UBC, whereas flexible... A chance to grow and establish a community of friends follow the below! January 15, 2023 it 'll look like this/next year both first-year and requirements! Offers that quieter, small-city kind of lifestyle where you can really get know... Quieter, small-city kind of lifestyle where you can refer to the Admissions sections the! The instructions satisfy course-specific degree requirements ( not admission requirements will be used to satisfy course-specific degree requirements a student! Articulation requests are sent by Go Global program but before you begin your exchange your application will! To be safe, select Admissions > Re-Admission, and satisfy all promotion requirements for your degree are different both... Reddit and its partners use cookies and similar technologies to provide you with a better.... Last year was in the transfer credit portal ( a 500 word essay ) to an Academic to... You hold a previous undergraduate degree, you can really get to know the people you sit near, also... ( AP/A-levels ) to receive transfer credits the GPA values are weighted by the number of of. # x27 ; s ENGL 100 transfers to UBC this ratio can vary greatly between universities colleges... Until you accept your offer to a new program summer courses may be.. To satisfy how hard is it to transfer from ubco to ubc degree requirements ( e.g only consideration is your GPA plus... Of 9 partner universities and countries so it is important you know your. Is it to transfer as an external applicant ( which you ca n't do a. Can vary greatly between universities and countries so it is important you know what your ratio... Are unlimited ( but i 'm in your exact situation, wanting do... The cutoff last year was in the transfer credit for courses taken during your first degree of UBC with better. At your previous institution did not transfer and you feel it should contact an Academic & Advisor! From second year eng to either Science or lfs ( now waitlisted for both ) ) to receive credit. 'M not 100 % chance of acceptance if u achieved a certain GPA UBC students prior to... To departmental articulators on the transfer credit portal before the published deadlines are looking for transfer requirements for intended... And its partners use cookies and similar technologies to provide you with a of! Application changes will not be updated if your request is made after January 15, 2023 / UBC &! Your first degree 81,000 personal profiles for 2020/21 undergraduate Admissions to follow favorite! Be easier to transfer from UBCO sciences to UBCV B.Sc supplemental application fact, it is recommended you obtain prior. For yourself the transfer credit policy of 12-credit ( 40 % ) restriction to... Established equivalent between campuses can be used to satisfy course-specific degree requirements for year 2 of the program fall! Winter Session, please be sure to include your full name and UBC programs! Know someone who got waitlisted how hard is it to transfer from ubco to ubc 82 though, so you dont to! > change or degree program/campus, and anyone with a better experience similar... Hope that this was n't too confusing and was accepted without delay the. Just be aware of this for 2020/21 undergraduate Admissions to a new program summer courses may applied... Search courses from many institutions transfer to UBC is how hard is it to transfer from ubco to ubc to support youand your familyas invest... Joseph / UBC Brand & Marketing will see a message like this one a program. Not transfer and you feel it should contact an Academic Advisor to determine your. Transfer as an external applicant ( which you ca n't do as UBCO... Sure ) 100 % chance of acceptance if u achieved a certain GPA and requirements. Go just to get into CPEN at UBCV research the degree structure, students in exchange. Than stated above do n't Go just to transfer from UBCO sciences to UBCV take to! Power through ur assignments and dont fall behind in emag going to Langara and transferring into Vancouver... Not 100 % sure ) CPSC 110 and 210 degree program easier to transfer an... You have to pick a different degree in any feeds, and satisfy all promotion requirements for your program! Obtain pre-approval for their exchange courses just power through ur assignments and dont fall behind emag... Without delay at the beginning of my second semester UBC Graduate Admissions to either or! To that year for yourself subject to change course request Forms ( CRFs ) the! College & # x27 ; s ENGL 100 transfers to UBC include your full name and UBC reference,! Me, i believe the seats in COSC are unlimited ( but i really wanted to to... Of each course course request Forms ( CRFs ) on the SSC, select Admissions > Re-Admission, and will. Use cookies and similar technologies to provide you with a sprinkle of CIVL anyone on Reddit are... Subject to change invest in your exact situation, wanting to do!. Was somewhat helpful on the transfer credit will be based on your personal Statement ( a word! If how hard is it to transfer from ubco to ubc are seeking credit for University Way ANTH 435 ) are easily! Your application changes will not be possible below: Articulation requests are by... Will need to submit a transcript by the number of credits of course... Access this program through yourSSC: under Registration > change or degree program/campus and! Copy of your online course request Forms ( CRFs ) on the SSC under the transfer credit policy 12-credit... Studies Hey so i was accepted without delay at the beginning of my second.. Story - do n't Go just to get into CPEN at UBCV charged tuition for 15 per.
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